Curse

Apollo33 · Jun 14, 2007, 07:55 AM // 07:55

So armor from insignia stack with skills, right? I'm wondering if armor from the Acolyte of Balthazar would stack with other skills, like Conviction, or is the form's +40 armor considered in the armor cap? I realize that a Form is a skill, but I was wondering if they'd work differently for some reason.

Thanks.

-Loki- · Jun 14, 2007, 07:59 AM // 07:59

Single skills can take you above the cap, multiple skills can't. You'll still get the +40 from AoB, but you won't gain any more from other skills.

VitisVinifera · Jun 14, 2007, 08:13 AM // 08:13

staggering, how blind anet can be..........they are telling us what we can and can't do with builds

Thomas.knbk · Jun 14, 2007, 08:23 AM // 08:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by VitisVinifera

staggering, how blind anet can be..........they are telling us what we can and can't do with builds

.....................
what?

arcanemacabre · Jun 14, 2007, 08:37 AM // 08:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by VitisVinifera

staggering, how blind anet can be..........they are telling us what we can and can't do with builds

Agreed. This armor bonus limit is a colossal fail. AoB and Conviction is a combo I use frequently, and it seemed like a pretty sub-par, average skill combo any typical Dervish user would use. This update will kill that in its tracks and most of the players will have no idea (because they don't read the update notes all the time), and continue to play stuff like that.

It also means that Dervish on the team with the Paragon using Stand your Ground! and/or that Warrior using Watch Yourself! is getting no benefits as well. Those are two other skills most people would use. The Dervish almost entirely relies on armor boosts because of it's low normal armor and no shield, yet still on the frontlines.

GG, Anet, way to annihilate your two new classes in one fail swoop.

ss1986v2 · Jun 14, 2007, 08:44 AM // 08:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by VitisVinifera

staggering, how blind anet can be..........they are telling us what we can and can't do with builds

gotta go with thomas on this one, what?

hasnt anet been doing skill/game balances since like, day one? did someone just notice?

Stealthc · Jun 14, 2007, 08:58 AM // 08:58

Well now I guess instead of bringing Conviction you can bring another skill as damage mitigation, something like Armour of Sanctity won't trigger the armour cap.

Adapt to the changes, it's not that hard

Kale Ironfist · Jun 14, 2007, 09:02 AM // 09:02

It's not a way to annihilate them by any means, as I've completed the entire game without relying heavily on boosted armor. What it does kill is armor stacking in areas where damage is so high and/or comes in so many packets and/or packs enchantment removal that Protective Spirit just doesn't help.

And those areas tend to be Hard Mode-esque areas.

So basically ArenaNet has basically forced people to shape-up or ship out. It's a good way to force players to learn tactics for PvP, but if PvE wasn't in its current format, people wouldn't really complain about this mostly non-issue.

The bigger problem? They're forcing this on us as players, rather than easing it through.

Miral · Jun 14, 2007, 09:03 AM // 09:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by VitisVinifera

staggering, how blind anet can be..........they are telling us what we can and can't do with builds

well, they're telling you that they don't want anyone to be nearly invincible... well, except for 55 monks, they seem to be above the rules T.T (and before the inevitable troll jumps me, yes I have a 55 monk who is unbelievably easy to play, and still want them nerfed)

Alderin · Jun 14, 2007, 09:13 AM // 09:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

This update will kill that in its tracks and most of the players will have no idea (because they don't read the update notes all the time), and continue to play stuff like that.

Thats another big thing about it. A lot don't even visit the Guild Wars site to see the update notes or even know the site has such a section.
Funny how if something is popular then it means it is overpowered to ArenaNet... then again when it comes to balancing if skills were not nerfed into oblivion then there would be more options. Then again how is it 'balance' to kill something out of existance? Then again that topic of discussion does not belong in this thread.

arcanemacabre · Jun 14, 2007, 09:22 AM // 09:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealthc

Well now I guess instead of bringing Conviction you can bring another skill as damage mitigation, something like Armour of Sanctity won't trigger the armour cap.

Adapt to the changes, it's not that hard

The point is its going to make for a lot of redundant and useless skills. What's the point of bringing Stand your Ground or Watch Yourself if it's only going to really have an effect on one or two people because everyone else has their own armor bonuses? This devalues a lot of skills, period. This isn't so much a nerf in mechanics as it is removing a large number of skills from usefulness.

What's worse is, like I said, those who don't know of this update (which would be the majority of players who don't use forums - or, most people who play), will not know those extra skills they throw on their bar are just about useless because of their buddies skills, or in combinations like that. That further segregates the good players from the average players.

Anet does not usually force people to play a certain way, or run certain skills/builds. They usually encourage or discourage playstyles. This here, is straight up forcing.

Thomas.knbk · Jun 14, 2007, 09:58 AM // 09:58

you guys do realise this was done because of teams full of paragons running around invincible with armor somewhere in the 140's right?

Miral · Jun 14, 2007, 10:00 AM // 10:00

I'm sure there will be enough biitching in major cities to keep most people in the know about it, hehe

Lonesamurai · Jun 14, 2007, 10:07 AM // 10:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by from the back of the guild wars case

"Gameplay Experience may change during online play"

In otherwords, the game may most likely change... oh look, its changing again... ohh...

arcanemacabre · Jun 14, 2007, 10:13 AM // 10:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas.knbk

you guys do realise this was done because of teams full of paragons running around invincible with armor somewhere in the 140's right?

No, I didn't. Although, despite how much time I've put into my Paragon, I'm seriously at the point where I'd just rather them be wiped from the game entirely, I don't care what I lose with her. Seriously, they obviously didn't think the paragon through when they were working on it before Nightfall.

RbX · Jun 14, 2007, 10:16 AM // 10:16

The Question is: The Skill balances are tested for one week..but is the cap of the armor buff also one aspect for testing or a final decision?

xDusT II · Jun 14, 2007, 10:16 AM // 10:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas.knbk

you guys do realise this was done because of teams full of paragons running around invincible with armor somewhere in the 140's right?

Yes, i don't see how this requires a full blown nerfing of the entire armor system.

This really is only a problem because PvE is so damage based that ridiculous amounts of armor become a necessity. A standard DoA tank needs Dolyak Signet, Armor of Earth and Obsidian Flesh to hold aggro and even then he takes considerable damage. This armor cap will only work is ANet completely re-works the mechanics of PvE so we don't get stupid 300 damage elementalists.

Right now I'm just waiting for someone to say: "the general consensus from the GW community is that the changes have been good"

Sword · Jun 14, 2007, 10:24 AM // 10:24

those who argue that the dervish is being nerfed does not understand the game or game balance ... the dervish puts out a TON of damage, and low armor is the only thing that is a way to counter that. Hope your monks know how to play the game and learn to frontline correctly if u need 5000 armor to survive

this nerf is 100% correct by anet and any decent play will recoginize that builds that are based around high armor are broken.

If you are arguing that armor nerf is destroying builds then maybe you should stop playing iway type builds and learn to play the game

I Will Heal You Ally · Jun 14, 2007, 10:28 AM // 10:28

And just when you think Water Eles will have some use with GWEN skill they do this. Bye bye +124 armor against phyisical with Armor of Frost, Armor of Mist & Frigid Armor

Thomas.knbk · Jun 14, 2007, 11:01 AM // 11:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

No, I didn't. Although, despite how much time I've put into my Paragon, I'm seriously at the point where I'd just rather them be wiped from the game entirely, I don't care what I lose with her. Seriously, they obviously didn't think the paragon through when they were working on it before Nightfall.

I would agree with that. As a matter of fact, the same goes for Ritualists, Assassins and Dervishes.
The problem with paragons is the same as the problem with SF eles: they become more effective the more you put in a team. A single paragon might be able to give a few select people some extra armor (or everyone if he chooses to sacrifice his second profession to /W and put a lot of points in tactics), and put out some decent damage, but if you put 5 in a team you basically have the offense of 5 warriors (Agressive Refrain needs a nerf, hard), everyone has Watch Yourself and Stand Your Ground on them (including the monks), the monks on top of that have Soldier's Stance activated like 60% of the time, making it impossible to kill them, hexes get owned by Dual Expel, Mending Refrain is actually enough for most of the damage (now that I think of it they actually have 150 armor, not 140), it's the most imbalanced build ever. (in a long time at least)

I have no clue how to fix this. The fact that paragons become more effective the more you throw in a team is a huge problem, because it inherently means (has to mean) a single paragon is very ineffective. Because of this, you will hardly ever see a single paragon in a balanced build for some midline support. This means the entire class is doomed to either be a benchwarmer or be a huge gimmick.
Searing Flames eles suffer from the same fate to a lesser extend. I think it's great for fire to have a decent offensive option that actually kills things (mind blast is most of all a crapload of energy with low damage), but when you throw them in packs things just tend to get rediculous. A single searing flames ele could be dealt with because they usually spam their elite on recharge, making it incredibly easy to divert it (ever played a searing flames ele with your elite diverted/humiliated? You're basically just standing around 'nuking' people with Glowing Gaze and Liquid Flame every 6/13 seconds lol), but you can't Divert 6 copies of the same skill if your opponent is not completely retarded.
I could explain why assassins, rits and dervishes are bad too if you wish, but I don't really feel like it atm.
Just to let you know, I don't like what's happening to the paragon either, but it's the only option with a class that's designed so badly from the start.

I'm sorry for whose DoA tank got screwed hard by this, but I think you'll survive. If DoA really becomes undoable with this nerf, I'm sure Anet will do something to fix it. (like less retarded damage)